Fenner style gears

[misterouija]

As the fenner gears had became rare the hydraulic companies began making generic pump heads to please their customers who had blocks that fit only fenner type gears..  

[misterouija]

 

[misterouija]

This pump head was made for Red's Hydraulics in the mid 90's It is very similar to a fenner but it looks like it was of less quality than a fenner..

 

[Hydros]

As a side note, I always built my setups.  Paul Monroe Hydraulics was a direct distributor for Stone Hydraulics. And I'd get my motors from a direct Prestolite dealer too. I've still got these pumps and motors and I'm thinking that Stone would put their name along side the Prestolite name.

I never bought a complete pump "off the shelf." I was even working on a custom block just before I left Lowriding for a while.

I was always wondering about these so-called hi-performance pumps made by Reds, and others. But I never would have guessed that some shops would sell (what I now believe to be) low quality parts.

This is a first for me.

As the Fenner gears had became rare the hydraulic companies began making generic pump heads to please their customers who had blocks that fit only Fenner type gears.

When did the Fenners gears start to become hard to get?
(the reason I ask, for those that didn't already know, I came back to lowriding after about 22 years and am relearning the new stuff and catching up on the stuff I missed). Lord knows where I would be today if I never left.  [/size] :wacko:

I find this interesting, do you know which hydraulic companies were making these replacement Fenner pumps?

What other types of blocks were there that replaced blocks that the Fenners would bolt to?

How were these new blocks different?

Lowrider Hydraulics, -History 101

[Hydros]

On this pic, which gear is made by whom?

As a another side note: Fenner-Stone used to have relief ports leading from the shaft at the seal and from other area. (I'll need to go and find those pump heads to see). Kind of like what we see in the pic above, but they were drill and not slotted. Anyways, I tapped out those ports and installed set screws to stop/slow the fluid leaks.  This appeared to be a bad idea. The pumps seemed to struggle or bind or something.

One day I decided to block off all the ports on my block with a pump head (gears, same thing) bolted to that block. I then got another complete pump, (gate) and connected the pressure hose from that pump to the inlet of the gear head that was bolted to the block. Hitting the switch I could see all the areas of leakage at the gear head.

From this I learned that those early Fenner pump heads leaked like crazy. Machining the shaft guides to allow the use of o-rings to prevent leaking and using a plate over the back end improved the inches. But blocking the relief ports was not a good idea.

This brings us up to todays pump heads. Of course we don't see the external leaking, but, I wonder if the internal designed fluid relief is made for life and not performance. As I have yet to take on and study these new pump heads up close and personal.

[misterouija]

Sounds like some interesting things you have done to those pump heads...




When did the Fenners gears start to become hard to get?

Around 1998/1999 the Italian pump heads were introduced into the lowrider market. First they put out more pressure.. More pressure more performance, They are cheaper so when running a business sometimes they decide to go with somthing that will do the same job. The funny thing about the fenner style heads you have have a whole bunch of them all the same they put out different pressure output.. I'm talking serious pressure differences.. one would put out 3000PSI and other could put out about 5000PSI!!! It have to do with the machining and assembly process. If you tested a a Italian pump head they put out about 6000PSI not sure at what voltages though.. A fenner style gear because they were made from steel keep there tolerences and pretty much keep the same pressure through the life of the pump. If you did a bar graph of the pressure output of Italian heads you'll notice a slow decline in performance as the soft aluminum in the pump begins to wear out... This makes sense if your running a business because it would keep your customers coming back..


I find this interesting, do you know which hydraulic companies were making these replacement Fenner pumps?

Red's before they had the whole mess they went through was selling a pump called the super pump. It had a little superman like logo on front. Now red's is selling a fenner copy with no markings on it. They tried to pawn them off on me as FENNER heads..

Prohopper I know recently has a line of cheaper pumps with generic gears in them..

Showtime has some "Street" gears or somthing like that..

I think the new fenner replacements are all the same machine shop over seas.. probally in China and they are cheap looking if you put them next to a fenner gear...

Nick at Porky's hydraulics is still selling genuine Fenner gears with ported inlets and outlets...

What other types of blocks were there that replaced blocks that the Fenners would bolt to?
How were these new blocks different?

I'll try to explain this the best I can here... If you look at the outlet of the Italian gears you'll notice that the outlet has no seal on the outlet and they fit a block that has a indent for the o-ring

now on a fenner mount block you'll notice that the pump head has a o-ring around the outlet. The block is flat for a fenner gear...


here is where this gets tricky.. both pumps have the same mounting pattern. My original gears were flat on the outlets and the o-ring was attached to the block.. When I put the real Fenner gears on I had to remove the o-ring from the pump head and get a thick one for my modern block. I am still trying to get the right thickness down because it seems that every once in a while when hopping the o-ring behind the pump head will blow out and cause poor performance... but when it's working good look out...

[misterouija]

On this pic, which gear is made by whom?

As a another side note: Fenner-Stone used to have relief ports leading from the shaft at the seal and from other area. (I'll need to go and find those pump heads to see). Kind of like what we see in the pic above, but they were drill and not slotted. Anyways, I tapped out those ports and installed set screws to stop/slow the fluid leaks.  This appeared to be a bad idea. The pumps seemed to struggle or bind or something.

One day I decided to block off all the ports on my block with a pump head (gears, same thing) bolted to that block. I then got another complete pump, (gate) and connected the pressure hose from that pump to the inlet of the gear head that was bolted to the block. Hitting the switch I could see all the areas of leakage at the gear head.

From this I learned that those early Fenner pump heads leaked like crazy. Machining the shaft guides to allow the use of o-rings to prevent leaking and using a plate over the back end improved the inches. But blocking the relief ports was not a good idea.

This brings us up to todays pump heads. Of course we don't see the external leaking, but, I wonder if the internal designed fluid relief is made for life and not performance. As I have yet to take on and study these new pump heads up close and personal.

Ok to your left is a Real Fenner.. you are right about the side being drilled out... I think it is also for oil lubrication of the shaft. you may have been getting shafts hot in your pump heads and they started to stick...  also Notice the o-ring on the fenner gear..


the cheap gear on the right has the notched back plate for a oil passage probally because that is more cost effective to do..

[misterouija]

:huh: here is a picture I couldn't get to load the other day.... it's the front of the fenner and Super Pump by Red's

 

[Mister Ouija ( Guest )]

A fenner syle gear is called a FIXED CLEARENCE pump...... that means that the tolerences are tight and meant to keep their tolerences for a long time... That means longer life in normal use...

[djlowlife]

    is this a feener gear?