CONFIGURATIONS of solenoids

[Hydros]

First there are two main factors for setting up your solenoids:

1) Is to avoid having them stick and causing your motor to keep running because of a connection or power problem.
2) The other is to avoid having them stick because of failure of the solenoid itself.
 
Using only one bank of three solenoids you have a set amount of surface area. It's like a large amount of runners on a four lane highway that come to a bridge. Traffic will bottle neck or become hot as bodies bump into each other as they all try to keep the same speed.

Next, regarding solenoids getting hot:  a small wire will burn and catch fire within millisecond if you connect both ends to each terminal of a battery. But if you connect a large solid copper pipe between the posts, most likely the pipe will be fine, it's the battery that will melt.

If you double the surface area, meaning double the banks of solenoids, you would have (in theory) solved both problems.

Now you may need more AMP/VOLTS to power two banks of solenoids, but if you use an external power source, like from the set of batteries connecting to your rear pump, you will never notice the loss, if any.

During use solenoids will normally get hot and build resistance and over course of time they will fatigue and become pitted and maybe heated treated. (There are two factors here, the coil winding and the contact areas, we are talking about the contact areas.)

Electricity will travel the path of least resistance. Having two bank of solenoids (we'll call them bank #1 and bank #2) will allow the same amount power to flow to the pump, but it's when repeatedly hitting the switch like in hopping or dancing that two banks would be desired.

Having two banks of solenoids may not be 100% the same, meaning one bank may start to develop more resistance. Lets say bank (#1) starts to get hotter than bank (#2).  Bank (#1) then starts to have the most resistance. Now bank (#2) is the set with the least amount of resistance. It will then get used the most, and then start to build up resistance. This will allow than bank (#1) to then will get used the most.

What this means is that the solenoids will switch back and forth and get used evenly, (In theory) Using two banks will (should) last longer. What is happening is that one bank of solenoids as they are used will get hot and this heat could reduce your power to the pumps. A double bank should/could increase the times you can hit the switch without the excessive loss of voltage.

More later on how to physically connect two banks to the batteries and pump.

[trulowrider79]

i really like this one i think ur on to something here

[thx_1138]

I'm trying to figure out this whole solenoid thing....

I've seen several wiring diagrams that show the solenoids wired in series ( from batts into #1 / out from #1 into #2 / out from #2 into #3 / out from #3 to pump ).
    Series diagram

I would think the "correct" way would be wired in parallel ( from batts into #1, #2 & #3 via a buss bar / out from #1, #2 & #3 via a buss bar to pumps).
    Parallel diagram

With series wiring if one solenoid fails, you're done. With parallel you increase power handling and decrease heat.

I've also seen several explanations that use pump batteries to operate the solenoids.  If full battery bank voltage is run thru solenoids it will definitely cook them.  Unless your solenoids are spec'd at 36v or 48v, I'd run them off the vehicle battery.

If I'm confused  :blink: , tell me so........ but please explain why.

[thx_1138]

OK, I just checked out the some posts under Solenoids -> 12v.  If I understand correctly, the series wiring is a safety feature. High amp loads can weld the relay contacts together, so pump runs continuosly. ( NOT a good thing)

[thx_1138]

After a round of serious head scratching.....

The best setup would be a combination parallel/series. Series is failsafe, parallel is power and heat handling.  Parallel - Series

Or maybe even a parallel setup with solenoid just for kill switch / panic button. A kill solenoid on either the positive or negative side of the battery bank would work.  Parallel w/ kill The only thing is you couldn't use a starter solenoid as their not rated for continuous duty.  Ask the NAPA/Autozone/PEP Boys counter guy for the catalog. I found one under part number SS495 that was rated for continuous duty at 200 amps    downside: cost. They $62 each  <_< .

[Guest]

My personal opinion is that using three solenoids inline is a carry-on from the old days. Using three inline works, using 4/6 in paralle/series works better.

Parallel/series costs more and takes more time to set up and I swear is the best system for me.

It will catch on, as it's shows who knows what and that their system is made to perform.

It's like every day cars installing high performance technology race car parts.  

[Hydros]

that article can not be located, most likely in a backup from a different previous broad/forum like phpp or IB

will post a pic of my setup if the original is found. Or I will take a pic as the setup is now, kinda sorry looking...

[dogbone]

This was a damn good read.
Ive been thinkin on doin the parallel/series thing when i will upgrade my set up, but only cause it will look trick as its not on a ''performance'' set up.
Again, good stuff

[Hydros]

This is the best I can find right now, I do have pics of mine, but are lost in the maze of images and correct names of the file/s.  I think a member sent this in.

[87gbody]

That 2x2 configuration makes perfect sense.

[Hydros]

Yes, but only here can you make that statement. otherwise you'd find yourself restrained and hung by your toes  

[dogbone]

So what is the physical diffrence in wiring 4 one after the other or 2 next to the othr 2?
I like those 2 parallel banks n i have an idea for a cool rack for them.

[87gbody]

So what is the physical diffrence in wiring 4 one after the other or 2 next to the othr 2?
I like those 2 parallel banks n i have an idea for a cool rack for them.

With 2 banks, each solenoid will see half the amperage.

[Hydros]

There is actually an update on the series/parallel design, it should be two cables from the batterys and two cables going to the motor.