Accumulated pump on low voltage for efficiency.

[87gbody]

Has an accumulated pump such as a piston or bladder ever been used on a low voltage system for the purpose of efficiency/battery life?

[Hydros]

Has an accumulated pump such as a piston or bladder ever been used on a low voltage system for the purpose of efficiency/battery life?

For efficiency/battery life I think if it has it would have gotten out by this time. This seems to be a good idea, why no one has tried it and been successful seems odd. But I have no idea what the Japaneses are up to.  For battery life, it does depend on the batteries used and how they are charged. But we can't do much when switch happy.

If we must use the same motors, then we need to play with the cylinder diameters and gear sizes. Plus we should use the G body and 24VDC to a common motor (used today) as the base for testing. Fatter cylinders and larger gears, may provide decent switch action with a piston pump with the common motor.
Battery life will be extended by using smaller (but not too small) gear size.    

If we are talking one pump for each front and back? Then the solutions for good action is to use both pumps with even lower gears for decent action and battery life, but use only one pump at a time. Less strain on the batteries.

If using one pump for front and rear, then small gears are the best solution to longer lasting batterys, but for good action, we need to change or add something different.









 
I say use the bladder as an accumulator.

[87gbody]

The closest thing I have heard of was when someone on LIL said they saw some dude at a show with [if i remember correctly] 6 batts, 1 piston pump, and a manifold setup. Said he was laughing at the guys setup....until he saw him hit switch.



-Lowrider gears are fixed pressure, and volume is based on RPM(and therefore voltage.).
-Smaller gears have produce more pressure.
-Larger gears produce more volume.

Correct?

Would it make sense to select the gear with enough pressure, then increase volume adding voltage or adding a second pump?
How much is "enough"? Would adding additional pressure result in diminishing returns?


I have only used standard diameter cylinders but I can imagine what the difference would be. Have you tried them?


Should a rear pump use a huge gear even with low voltage and standard motor? It has less weight, and a 1:1 lift ratio. I would think any gear would put out enough pressure, but volume is what is needed. Example: running 2 pumps to the rear is faster than 1, but there is no pressure increase, only volume.

[Hydros]

The closest thing I have heard of was when someone on LIL said they saw some dude at a show with [if i remember correctly] 6 batts, 1 piston pump, and a manifold setup. Said he was laughing at the guys setup....until he saw him hit switch. This may depend on how high the wheels were when they are in the air, if you can force the wheels up, (or not allow them to hang too low) then the car appears to hop higher.

-Lowrider gears are fixed pressure, and volume is based on RPM(and therefore voltage.).
-Smaller gears have produce more pressure.
-Larger gears produce more volume.

Correct?  YES



Would it make sense to select the gear with enough pressure, then increase volume adding voltage or adding a second pump? YES but for what reason?


How much is "enough"? Would adding additional pressure result in diminishing returns? Define diminishing returns.  And would this be before or after the above question?


I have only used standard diameter cylinders but I can imagine what the difference would be. Have you tried them?  I have tried cylinders at around 1 1/8 to 1 3/8, Most tests have been with voltage and gear size. Too small a cylinder diameter and the shaft bends, to large and it's too slow and needs more fluid in the average size tank.

Should a rear pump use a huge gear even with low voltage and standard motor? It has less weight, and a 1:1 lift ratio. I would think any gear would put out enough pressure, but volume is what is needed. Example: running 2 pumps to the rear is faster than 1, but there is no pressure increase, only volume.

Hmm... this question is kinda hard to picture. I like to break questions down like a detective would trying to solve a crime.  (see my posts on LIL maintenance and repair).

Should a rear pump use a huge gear even with low voltage and standard motor? It depends if you are a dancer, the word "should" has me wondering the reason.

It has less weight, and a 1:1 lift ratio.

I would think any gear would put out enough pressure, but volume is what is needed. True, depending on cylinder diameter.



Example: running 2 pumps to the rear is faster than 1, but there is no pressure increase, only volume. True

[Hydros]

In think most riders could care less about how the back responds, it appears most riders are into how the front reacts. I think the dancers are the ones that need to dial the rear to match the front with speed and overall performance. (IMO)

[87gbody]

In think most riders could care less about how the back responds, it appears most riders are into how the front reacts. I think the dancers are the ones that need to dial the rear to match the front with speed and overall performance. (IMO)

True, but I was looking at it from a battery life point of view.


Basically what I am stuck on is pressure. The way I am picturing it is, you need a certain amount of pressure to overcome the force of the car.(Which would be mass when the car lifting from still, but mass and acceleration if it's is falling back down from hopping...right? ).

Now when you have already reached that pressure, what happens when you add more? Will there be a significant, or any performance increase? What I am getting at is, would it be wiser to use that additional energy to create more volume? A real world example that I can imagine would be a performance gain after swaping to a larger gear.(Which = less pressure, more volume.)

[Hydros]

Basically what I am stuck on is pressure. The way I am picturing it is, you need a certain amount of pressure to overcome the force of the car.(Which would be mass when the car lifting from still, but mass and acceleration if it's is falling back down from hopping...right? ).

Now when you have already reached that pressure, what happens when you add more? Will there be a significant, or any performance increase? What I am getting at is, would it be wiser to use that additional energy to create more volume? A real world example that I can imagine would be a performance gain after swaping to a larger gear.(Which = less pressure, more volume.)

Smaller gears are less strain on the motor and what powers the motor.

Using larger gears, causes more stress on the motor and batteries (if we keep the cylinder ID the same)
If you can maintain the same stress on the system, then volume over pressure would work.

Once you have the pressure to begin raising the car, (approx 1000PSI and depending on cylinder ID), all you need from there on is volume. - Massive amounts of volume like with tandem gear heads.

Now you get more flow, but at what expense? The motor needs the power or batteries to over come the torque needed to pump more fluid.

So the average motor most likely will not work, you install a 50HP VDC motor, with the required  power/batteries/amps and it's works. So if your plan is to hop higher, (not faster) volume is what is needed at all phases of hopping. Notice how the motor kind of whines or wheezes just as the switch is hit, its the motor stressing. (IMO) Use a much higher HP motor and (IMO), you will not hear that.  or what I like, is high torque and high speed motor.

So, it's the motor that can not handle the stress, you over come the needed amps by increasing the volts.

To me pressure is like filling a void. Too much void and very little happens.  Too much pressure is like a bomb, so lets use volume over pressure. It's safer.  

[Hydros]

After all that, did I kinda answer the question?