Using hydraulics to open quick disconnect when motor is stuck spinning

[Hydros]

First video: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qkvE90PUdCY

Second video: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Kjn4NaueLMg&feature=plcp

Check out the 2nd video, This is the best for viewing the outstanding performance of the concept. The first video is just for bragging rights.



When the solenoids stick, the hydraulic motor will continue to turn, It is impossible to stop this runaway motor by releasing the voltage going to the electrical solenoids. The only way is to disconnect the batterys ground.

All this run-away pressure can actually be used to your advantage. All this pressure wanting to go somewhere, have it go to another cylinder that activates (or deactivates) the ground quick disconnect.

Basic design, basic parts needed.
Using the hydraulics itself to disconnect all power.

The regular service dump valve is wired normally. There is a second switch for the auxiliary dump valve, only a power wire of 24VDC switched into the auxiliary dump is required, this second switch can be wired to power the aux valve when tapping up and/or down.  When the time comes, activate the auxiliary dump to deactivate the entire system. --A dash mounted button is also an option.






In 2006 this original idea came about, and the drawings were posted on the net. After much encouragement from a fellow LIL member, it was decided it was time to build it. There is another design for a bolt-on system to the pump.  

We are happy to share this and how it was done and the parts used. If you make your own, be careful, use the best parts, wear all safety equipment and contact us for advise. Anyone buying this system as a kit from a shop will know where the shop got the idea. It might be a good marketing strategy to get the endorsement from the original designer.

Here and on www.hydros.biz and www.squaredump.com you will find a lot of innovations just waiting for the proto-types to come to life. -- One of the next innovations will be a hi-bred 2 battery setup hopping approx 20 inches.

[Hydros]

this one post has been directed to Creative Thinkers/Projects http://hydros.biz/forum/index.php?topic=236

[Hydros]

1) pic: here is how the valving is put together
2) pic: this is how the connect looks closed
3) pic: this is how is looks after being activated

The cylinder looks ghetto, this is just a mock up, once the system worked, I then removed it back to stock.

[Hydros]

Some of the things that need to be taken into consideration is the amount of pressure that has been produced and how to safely use it.

Action of the dump valve.
cylinder diameter,
cylinder length
restriction devises connect to the cylinder, like a slow down.
possible shut off valve T'd into system
a relief valve on the disconnect side

Then after the repair is made to the electrical system, we need a faster way to re-connect the cables.  IN THE WORKS.

[Unity Jon]

an electronic actuator that both pulls and pushes and takes power (+12ve) from the engine battery would in my opinion be a much safer and neater looking solution

keep up the good work though, its all in the development.

[Hydros]

an electronic actuator that both pulls and pushes and takes power (+12ve) from the engine battery would in my opinion be a mush safer and neater looking solution

keep up the good work though, its all in the development.

Unity Jon, good to see you again, you have an idea there, have more details?

[Hydros]

Had to change the Waterman out.

You can note there is not a middle hose T'd off to both rear cylinders.

[Hydros]

First thoughts were to use a double acting cylinder to pull away the quick from each other. This would be a much easier and more trouble free design.

What was not shown was how the disconnect was reconnected.

1) In this original form, a temporary auxiliary ground was used to dump system pressure all the way.
Then, the hose to the auxiliary cylinder had to be cracked to then push the disconnect back together. - all just lame.

2) Or, dump both the auxiliary and service dump at the same time and push the disconnect together, kinda hard with just two hand,

3) Or, use the  auxiliary valve with shut off to one of the rear cylinders, then activate service dump.

4) Or, Another work around is: auxiliary valve to shut off to tank.

5) Or, two dump valves with levers (like the Monster Greens) real fast, real easy.

6) Or, use a double acting cylinders and just tap the pump to bring the disconnects together, (remember, we are using a temporary auxiliary ground.

The ground cable does lock when twisted, but this design did not allow them to twist, It is believed the clamp on the male part of the cable was crushed to give improved grip, but, reconnecting them together was still very easy.

[Hydros]

Very important to note: there is still a lot of deadly pressure in the system, the disconnect just stops the motor, this is why I left the T at the auxiliary valve, a slowdown goes there, then open it up and the disconnect system is relieved. The best option would be to have a slow down just after the dump valve and then a pressure relief valve. This will control the high pressure and bleed down time.

On the drawing below, is a more stream line design, this is just one of many many ways, but the main concern is safety. This can be done with more plumbing, valving and pressure reliefs. Safety first, then appearance.

This one reply continues on:
http://hydros.biz/forum/index.php?topic=236

[Hydros]

just as the disconnect opens

[Hydros]

aux system is the quick disconnect
"working system"or "cars system"  or just the word "system" refers to the cars hydraulics



Another idea is to use two flat thick plates (could be cylinder shaped too and inside a tube) and a two port cylinder,

One plate is stationary and the other plate is connected to the aux cylinder.

The ground for the aux system is bolted to the stationary plate, the other plate is connected to the cylinder, In this aux system, the cylinders pulls the plates apart. This is an easier system to reconnect, but even the welding cable design is also easy if re-designed.

The cylinder has a spring/coil causing pressure to be applied to the plates. When fluid is applied to the aux cylinder, the plates are pulled away. In this design, any pressure in the disconnect (aux) system keeps the plates separated. Once a repair is made, or to just reconnect the plates, open a slow down and the fluid pressure is released from the aux cylinder and the plates/contacts join.

Recall, there is 100% no power to the hydraulic system, for safety, you release pressure and then you have voltage. This system could use a NC valve but again, there is a need for voltage.

Others thoughts, the plates can be smaller if the surface is 'v" shaped, to allow for more surface area contact. This may or may not be advantages.

Any type of linear/rotating device would work in place of the aux hydraulic cylinder. And you may see copy-cats designs, but would use an external power source. This design, removes all need for an external power source. And is tamper proof once activated. As the release is locked inside the trunk.


in the image below, this was thought out in about 15 minutes, so there are bugs and improvements to be made.  One thought is to have only one hose to and from the box...

[Hydros]

another thought is to have the power to the system dump wired in with the aux dump.  - this will be on a separate switch,

theory is: hitting the system dump and aux dump at the same time, may allow for some pressure to be released from the system side before all power is lost.

this may or may not work, if all pressure is lost from the system, then the aux valve will never move. But is does appear it will, especially if the cars hydraulic system slowdown is not wide open. --  any combination of added hydraulic controls would make this 100% possible.

[Hydros]

Mr. E.

[Hydros]

update 12-26-12 -- got to thinking

1) instead of a hydraulics powering the cylinder, if an actuator is fast enough, then this might be a different solution.
2) or use a air cylinder, just open a valve and compressed air separates the ground,
3) or use a hydraulic accumulator, that one blast of fluid/air could be all it needs.

-- looking into a mechanical way to separate too. Like an electric plunger to break the current flow.

Pros and Cons needed.....






notes
that air cylinder, it can be charged off the back and fourth motion of the piston tank gas chamber. This would be a safer way to activate the quick disconnect.

OR just have a charged accumulator,  


thinking.................

[Hydros]

I am thinking a solenoid operated mechanical plunger might be the best solution. This are kinda cool to watch. This lever activated a mechanical  dump valve that then dumped the car.

If it can be made like a trip-wire, Just needs to move less than an inch, then it trips and springs keep it open.

[Hydros]

An example: on the starter, remove the armature, (replace with the ground cable), the solenoid plunger will kick the starter gear into the fly wheel. I don't recall ever being able to force the plunger when it's activated. The lever itself can provide plenty of leverage if needed.

here you might keep the solenoid and the lever attached, toss the rest.

pros  cons ??



notes later.


draw back is the solenoid needs juice to move and keep moving?
solution.  once it gives, then a spring takes over. ---- problem-----
the spring is the only thing keeping the plunger from returning, -maybe OK-
spring must be able to overcome the force to separate the ground cable.  --better spring--

the plunger must move fast, as the ground connection, may weld itself together, or become pitted.

an issue is with the spring inside the solenoid, it keeps the pinion gear back, you apply power, the pinion moves forwards, you remove power, the pinion returns. This would cause the cables to reconnect, at first,

I am thinking just a regular push/pull solenoid plunger,

[Hydros]

from  
http://www.cdxetextbook.com/electrical/chargStartLight/start/starterengage.html

Starter motor engagement
Summary
Solenoid operation moves the operating fork and pinion to mesh with the ring gear and causes the plunger contacts to bridge the main starter terminals.

Engagement is provided by operation of the ignition switch in the start position which activates a starter mounted solenoid whose plunger is engaged with the hooked end of a pinion shift lever and operating fork.

Solenoid operation moves the operating fork causing the pinion to engage with the ring gear and also causes the plunger contacts to bridge the main starter terminals.

The fork locates in a guide ring on a pinion driver which is coupled to the pinion via a roller type over-running clutch designed to transmit drive in one direction only.

The pinion driver is mounted on a helix, machined on the armature shaft to form a very coarse thread. This allows the pinion driver to rotate slightly when it is moved towards the ring gear and this feature together with a chamfer on the leading edge of the ring gear and pinion teeth, is designed to assist meshing and easy engagement. However, if the pinion teeth butt against the ring gear teeth and engagement is prevented, the guide ring continues its axial movement by sliding over the sleeve of the driver and compressing a meshing spring until the plunger contacts bridge the main terminals and the armature begins to turn.

As soon as the engine starts, its rotational speed will eventually exceed the speed of the armature. At this instant the over-running clutch breaks the connection between the pinion and the armature shaft and prevents over-speeding and damage of the armature.

The pinion remains meshed as long as the engaging lever is held in the engaged position. Releasing the starter switch allows the solenoid plunger return spring, to return the engaging lever, driver and pinion to their original position.

[Hydros]

Have not tried this idea yet, but, to reduce the chance of hi-pressure in the system with everything off, A thought might be to have the service dump valve open, at the same the the aux valves opens.



You could hold down the service dump valve with a runaway motor and them release, this causes the car to dump to release pressure, then you need to release the power to the service dump, and the car goes back up.  This is an option and will buy you some time to get to the disconnect. The motor will spin like crazy when dumping, this is the reason to allow pressure back into the system, repeatedly.

[Hydros]

One way to wire up your switches is to have the three switches and the one for the release is in the center of your switches, or just hang it to one side or use a different color/wire switch.  To avoid getting mixing up the switch or direction of the switch handle, wire the switch so that power goes out each output terminal.

One the quick disconnect switch, you don't need to figure out which way to move the handle, just move it in any direction

[Hydros]

SPONSOR, BLACK MAGIC HYDRAULICS, 1-866-Magic-33
www.blackmagichydraulics.com

[Hydros]

When I go your way again, I'll bring my own food cause the in-laws are not Latinos. I bring my California carne asada, like I said before, we have happy cows, and no telling what I'll get with Nevada cows.  I always stock up before I head to LV.  

Learn to make a GOOD Spanish rice, it's in the pepper and butter.

Lightly butter the corn tortillas both sides and heat, throw on the cooked meat correctly cut, with cilantro, avocado and a Little salsa. Best to use a BBQ, no seasoning needed, just cut it against the grain when done,  M-MW is fine.


Kinda the same way for fish tacos, but those have a 1/3 slice of cheese. I used to be a cook, and the chef would copy my recipes.