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Author Topic: ACCUMULATORS  (Read 13379 times)
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« on: July 29, 2004, 06:20:47 AM »

THE BIGGEST MIS-CONCEPTION ABOUT ACCUMULATORS IS THEY ARE REPLACEMENT FOR SHOCKS...   THIS IS WRONG AND DO NOT REPLACE SHOCKS ACCUMULATORS ARE USED IN OUR SUSPENSION AS SPRINGS.

YOU MUST USE ONE ACCUMULATOR PER CYLINDER.  A GENERAL PSI RATING WOULD BE ANY WHERE BETWEEN 300PSI TO 900PSI OF NITROGEN CHARGED UNDER NO LOAD.

SOME PEOPLE HAVE HOPPING SPRINGS AND ALSO USE ACCUMULATORS WITH A SHUT OFF VALVE IN LINE.  THIS CAN MAKE YOUR HOPPER A GREAT DAILY DRIVER ASWELL.  IN THIS CASE THE ACCUMULATOR WOULD HAVE A LOWER PRESSURE BECAUSE YOU HAVE THE SPRINGS FOR THE SHOW AND THE ACCUMULATORS FOR THE SOFT SUSPENSION WHEN DRIVING.  

EVERY CAR IS DIFFERENT AND IT MAY TAKE YOU SOME TRIAL AND ERROR TO GET THE RIDE VS RESPONSE TIME DOWN TO SOMETHING YOU WANT.

WHEN USING ACCUMULATORS BE SURE TO USE A HARDER DUROMETER SEAL AS WEAR IS A LOT MORE WITH ACCUMULATORS BECAUSE THE CYLINDER RAM IS CONSTANTLY MOVING WITH THE SUSPENSION.  A GOOD IDEA WHEN USING ACCUMULATORS IS HONING OUT YOUR CYLINDER BODIES TO GET MORE LIFE FROM YOUR SEALS....
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dogbone
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« Reply #1 on: December 24, 2012, 03:12:30 PM »

I always thought that setups with only cilinders and accus would still need shocks to be perfect, but i kept hearing that the combo acts like both a spring and a shock that i started sorta beliving it even if the concept goes against the way i look at the whole physics of the ''situation''. Althou, i'd still use shocks regardless of whats the general public's view on the subject.

Check this video out for example. It looks like the car has a huge ''bounce'' and im sure if the situation calls for it, it could slam on the concrete and/or bounce its occupants to death LOL.
Dont get me wrong, i highly respect Hydroholics, i did even b4 ownin some of their incredibly high quality parts, but i think that the concept of a good ride/good handling car is very diffrent depending who you ask to. Then again, maybe this video was made this way on purpose to made clear that hydros dont necessarely mean ''break ya back'' kinda ride! Smiley

[video=youtube;iRMkjhindJA]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iRMkjhindJA[/video]

Now, this is what i consider a good ride, and just where i wanna get to with mine.
I bet this one has shocks to stop the rebound while the car on the video above hasnt.
[video=youtube;QrW9vOerhXo]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QrW9vOerhXo[/video]
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87gbody
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« Reply #2 on: December 25, 2012, 09:16:24 PM »

Have you seen the cylinder accumulators? I think they are made specifically for lowriders. I'm not sure if they use a bladder or piston. If it's a piston, I wonder if that design could be changed to incorporate a shock absorber coupled to the piston itself. It would probably only work on a euro with both ends of the cylinder bolted to the car.
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Hydros
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« Reply #3 on: December 25, 2012, 10:23:11 PM »

Have you seen the cylinder accumulators? I think they are made specifically for lowriders. I'm not sure if they use a bladder or piston. If it's a piston, I wonder if that design could be changed to incorporate a shock absorber coupled to the piston itself. It would probably only work on a euro with both ends of the cylinder bolted to the car.

I don't think I have, maybe,  BUT ANOTHER GOOD THOUGHT ON YOUR PART!!

well I am seeing a cylinder in the trunk, in place of the normal accumulator. Then this cylinder has a shock attached to it. Was this what you meant??  Or did you just inspire me??  Smiley

Keep those thoughts coming..
« Last Edit: December 25, 2012, 10:27:10 PM by Hydros » Logged

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« Reply #4 on: December 25, 2012, 10:47:06 PM »

OK, they are piston accumulators from BMH.

Only pics I could find on layitlow.

For it to work the piston would have to be coupled to a shock somehow.  Huh


* pistonacc.jpg (6.25 KB, 326x246 - viewed 1260 times.)

* pistonacc2.jpg (7.53 KB, 200x150 - viewed 1170 times.)
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« Reply #5 on: December 25, 2012, 11:11:51 PM »

I was just there too, anyways I checked again and could not find them. I am thinking these are filled with high pressure gas and there is no bladder.

BUT,, I was studying bladders the other day and noticed they come in many sizes. I guess you could make your own if you had the right size bladder to shove inside the cylinder.
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« Reply #6 on: December 25, 2012, 11:16:32 PM »

OK, they are piston accumulators from BMH.

Only pics I could find on layitlow.

For it to work the piston would have to be coupled to a shock somehow.  Huh

I took the name of the last image, pistonacc2.jpg did a search, nothing, then I removed the 2, found a mess of these. Will study for a bit.

pistonacc = piston accumulator
« Last Edit: December 25, 2012, 11:27:02 PM by Hydros » Logged

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« Reply #7 on: December 25, 2012, 11:21:21 PM »

http://www.gpmhydraulic.com/newsletter_archive/newsletter1209.htm

http://www.hydac.com/it-it/prodotti/accumulatori-idropneumatici/accumulatore-a-pistone/acc-a-pistone-ind-di-posizione.html

http://www.fluidpowersafety.com/fpsi_alert-16.html


looking to purchase?
http://www.hydac.com.au/products_qhp.aspx
www.parker.com
« Last Edit: December 25, 2012, 11:39:07 PM by Hydros » Logged

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« Reply #8 on: December 25, 2012, 11:31:09 PM »

Keep those thought coming...

https://www.google.com/search?q=piston+accumulator&hl=en&client=firefox-a&hs=ka4&tbo=d&rls=org.mozilla:en-US:official&source=lnms&tbm=isch&sa=X&ei=nXzaUPXXOuSdiQKEx4HYCw&sqi=2&ved=0CAcQ_AUoAA&biw=1024&bih=579



What's An Accumulator?
http://www.tobul.com/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=13&Itemid=27

A hydraulic accumulator is a device in which potential energy is stored in the form of a compressed gas or spring, or by a raised weight to be used to exert a force against a relatively incompressible fluid.

They are used in fluid power systems to accumulate energy and to smooth out pulsations. A hydraulic system utilizing an accumulator can use a smaller fluid pump since the accumulator stores energy from the pump during low demand periods. This energy is available for instantaneous use, released upon demand at a rate many times greater than could be supplied by the pump alone.

Accumulators can also act as surge or pulsation absorbers, much as an air dome is used on pulsating piston or rotary pumps. They will cushion hydraulic hammer, reducing shocks caused by rapid operation or sudden starting and stopping of power cylinders in a hydraulic circuit.

There are four principal types of accumulators, the weight loaded piston type, diaphragm (or bladder) type, spring type and the hydropneumatic piston type. The weight loaded type was the first used but is much larger and heavier for its capacity than modern piston and bladder types. Both the weighted type, and mechanical spring type are very seldom used today. The hydro-pneumatic types use a gas as a spring cushion in conjunction with a hydraulic fluid, the gas and fluid being separated by a thin diaphragm or a piston. Tobul accumulators, having an aluminum piston of low inertia as standard equipment, are superior to other makes in absorbing either high or low frequency pulsations.
Accumulator, Piston Type    Accumulator, Bladder Type
Accumulator, Spring Type    Accumulator, Weight Loaded

 
Functions
Stores Energy.

Hydro-pneumatic accumulators incorporate a gas in conjunction with a hydraulic fluid. The fluid has little dynamic power storage qualities. The fluid normally used in fluid power applications can be reduced in volume only about 1.7% under a pressure of 5000 PSI. Therefore when only 2% of the total contained volume is released, the pressure of the remaining oil in the system will drop to zero. However, the relative incompressibility of a hydraulic fluid makes it ideal for fluid power systems and provides quick response to power demand.

The gas, on the other hand, a partner to the hydraulic fluid in the accumulator, can be compressed to high pressures and low volumes. Potential energy is stored in this compressed gas to be released upon demand. This energy can be compared to that of a raised pile driver ready to transfer its tremendous energy upon the pile. In the piston type accumulator the energy in the compressed gas exerts pressure against the piston separating the gas and hydraulic fluid. The piston in turn forces the fluid from the cylinder into the system and to the location where useful work will be accomplished.
Absorbs Pulsations.

In most fluid power applications, pumps are used to generate the required power to be used or stored in a hydraulic system. Many pumps deliver this power in a pulsating flow. The piston pump, as commonly used for higher pressures, tends to produce pulsation detrimental to a high pressure system. An accumulator properly located in the system will substantially cushion these pressure variations.
Cushions Operating Shock.

In many fluid power applications the driven member of the hydraulic system stops suddenly, creating a pressure wave which is sent back through the system. This shock wave can develop peak pressures several times greater than normal working pressures and can be the source of system failure or objectionable noise. The gas cushion in an accumulator, properly placed in the system, will minimize this shock. An example of this application is the absorption of shock caused by suddenly stopping the loading bucket on a hydraulic front end loader. Without an accumulator, the bucket, weighing over 2 tons, can completely lift the rear wheels of a loader off the ground. The severe shock to the tractor frame and axle, as well as operator wear and tear, is overcome by the addition of an adequate accumulator to the hydraulic system.
Supplements Pump Delivery.

An accumulator, capable of storing power, can supplement the fluid pump in delivering power to the system. The pump stores potential energy in the accumulator during idle periods of the work cycle. The accumulator transfers this reserve power back to the system when the cycle requires emergency or peak power. This enables a system to utilize a much smaller pump, resulting in savings in cost and power.
Maintains Pressure.

Pressure changes occur in a hydraulic system when the liquid is subjected to rising or falling temperatures. Also, there may be pressure drop due to leakage of hydraulic fluid. An accumulator compensates for such pressure changes by delivering or receiving a small amount of hydraulic liquid. In the event the main power source should fail or be stopped, the accumulator would act as an auxiliary power source, maintaining pressure in the system.
Dispenses.

An accumulator may be used to dispense fluids under pressure, such as lubricating greases and oils.
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« Reply #9 on: December 25, 2012, 11:35:00 PM »

piston type

bladder type

spring type

weight loaded





* pistontype.jpg (22.01 KB, 250x300 - viewed 2295 times.)

* bladdertype.jpg (17.94 KB, 250x300 - viewed 2762 times.)

* springtype.jpg (25.17 KB, 250x300 - viewed 2163 times.)

* weightloaded.jpg (21.67 KB, 250x300 - viewed 1824 times.)
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« Reply #10 on: December 25, 2012, 11:37:13 PM »

http://constructionmanuals.tpub.com/14273/css/14273_110.htm
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« Reply #11 on: December 25, 2012, 11:37:48 PM »

with a tail rod


* with a tailrod..jpg (61.34 KB, 695x779 - viewed 1425 times.)
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« Reply #12 on: December 26, 2012, 12:26:42 AM »

OK, they are piston accumulators from BMH.

Only pics I could find on layitlow.

For it to work the piston would have to be coupled to a shock somehow.  Huh

I took the name of the last image, pistonacc2.jpg did a search, nothing, then I removed the 2, found a mess of these. Will study for a bit.

pistonacc = piston accumulator

I created that file name, I think it was gibberish when I got it from layilow.
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« Reply #13 on: December 26, 2012, 12:29:54 AM »

with a tail rod


Exactly what I was thinking, but with a shock attached to the tailrod.
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« Reply #14 on: December 26, 2012, 12:42:14 AM »

with a tail rod


Exactly what I was thinking, but with a shock attached to the tailrod.


Good one, damn you are seeing things I am missing!!
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« Reply #15 on: December 26, 2012, 03:14:20 AM »

I always thought that setups with only cilinders and accus would still need shocks to be perfect, but i kept hearing that the combo acts like both a spring and a shock that i started sorta beliving it even if the concept goes against the way i look at the whole physics of the ''situation''. Althou, i'd still use shocks regardless of whats the general public's view on the subject.

Check this video out for example. It looks like the car has a huge ''bounce'' and im sure if the situation calls for it, it could slam on the concrete and/or bounce its occupants to death LOL.
Dont get me wrong, i highly respect Hydroholics, i did even b4 ownin some of their incredibly high quality parts, but i think that the concept of a good ride/good handling car is very diffrent depending who you ask to. Then again, maybe this video was made this way on purpose to made clear that hydros dont necessarely mean ''break ya back'' kinda ride! Smiley

[video=youtube;iRMkjhindJA]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iRMkjhindJA[/video]

Now, this is what i consider a good ride, and just where i wanna get to with mine.
I bet this one has shocks to stop the rebound while the car on the video above hasnt.
[video=youtube;QrW9vOerhXo]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QrW9vOerhXo[/video]

wish I could have seen the setup in the Mercedes. Second video look pretty good giving an example of how accums at work.
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« Reply #16 on: December 28, 2012, 08:39:04 AM »

Aircraft accumulators are usually piston type, and ive heard they dont do such an amzing job LOL, but that kind has been around a while now.
Those from BM look like they need to get plumbed into the system? Would make sense, and i suppose the bigger they are the softer the ride, while if too small wont do a thing.
Like the fluid displacment system from Rayvern, only "oil to oil" rather than "oil to coil"
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« Reply #17 on: December 28, 2012, 02:05:32 PM »

with a tail rod


Exactly what I was thinking, but with a shock attached to the tailrod.

Good idea! Bit of of an install nightmare thou, unless remote mounted. Again, like the displacement system.
If only i had tons of money i'd spend ages doin this kind of stuff experimenting odd solutions.
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